America is for peace in the Great Lakes, Somalia
THE US Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs, Jendayi Frazer, met President Museveni in Kampala last week. She later addressed a press conference in Kampala. Below are excerpts:
Thank you for coming. I want to introduce to you Tim Shortley, my senior adviser for conflict resolution. He was appointed to ensure that we support the Juba peace process and respond to the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) conflict in a comprehensive and regional manner. He has been to northern Uganda and Juba.
He will go to Kinshasa to meet Congolese officials to discuss how the US can help ease tensions in eastern Congo and address the problem of LRA who have their bases in the Garamba Park. After that, he will return to Kampala to address the Tri-Partite-Plus meeting. He will be a regular visitor to Uganda.
We very much support the Juba talks. We applaud the progress in the consultative process, especially the cessation of hostilities, the comprehensive solutions and the principles of accountability and reconciliation. We are looking forward to the conclusion of this process to address ceasefire, demobilisation and re-integration of the former fighters. We do not believe that this should be an open-ended process. We are providing about $110m to emergency and development assistance in northern Uganda. That is within the context of about $450m that we provide to Uganda as a whole.
Tim Cocks (Reuters): It looks like the recent Somalia Reconciliation Conference was not a huge success. The violence got worse and you had daily fights between insurgents and the government. And none of the clan leaders that you needed to stop the violence were on board.
Frazer: We are happy there were talks and people felt the commitment to their country to come to Mogadishu to be part of the talks under the threat of violence. It is wrong to say there was failure or success because this is an ongoing process. It is also important to highlight Uganda’s role with the UPDF serving as the first contingent of the African Union forces.
The success of Somalia will be a process that includes further dialogue and reconciliation, whether through the National Reconciliation Congress or under the framework of the Transitional Federal Charter — the outcome being elections in 2009. Success in Somalia will mean the African Union deploying more forces so that the Ethiopians can withdraw.
Ultimately, we hope to see a major reduction in the violence, but it is not going to be completely non-violent because there are elements that have no interest in dialogue. So we think that their National Reconciliation Congress did a good start. It is an incomplete job, but the whole success of ending violence in Somalia does not and has never rested on the Reconciliation Congress alone.
Cocks (Reuters): How did the Islamic Courts manage to do it then, because they seemed to have brought a period of stability?
Frazer: The Islamic Courts did not bring peace and stability to Somalia. The violence there today was there before. They were spreading violence throughout the country as they moved forward. We have named specific terrorists that were being harboured or were part of the Islamic Courts.
Charles Odongtho (Uganda Radio Network): One of the major problems facing the AU mission in Somalia is funding. Why does it take long for the US to fund other countries to deploy rapidly?
Frazer:We are providing support and assistance the AU force – AMISOM. We are the major funder of the Ugandan troops that have gone into Somalia. We have asked our Congress for about $40m to fund others and Congress has given us the money. We will provide every country that has offered to deploy with at least $2m just to get the deployment under way. We are also providing training for many of these countries and that is actually the holdup. For instance, we have been doing more training with the Burundians. It is not an issue of money, but training.
Other countries are hesitant to deploy because of the violence in Mogadishu. So it is not so much a lack of funding. But we are prepared to support anyone who is prepared to deploy. And we have been encouraging AU members to do so. Burundi has offered for quite a while, but we needed to do further training. We have been talking to the Nigerians as well. But, I do not think the failure is due to US poor funding.
Charles Odongtho (Uganda Radio Network): The US is not a signatory to the Rome Statute. Isn’t it a contradiction that you are pushing for faster peace talks yet the International Criminal Court (ICC) is a factor?
Frazer: We are not signatory to the Rome Statute. We are supporting the peace process, we believe that it is one way to end the conflict in northern Uganda and it is the preferred way of the people of northern Uganda as well as the southern Sudanese. In that light, we are supporting basically an internal process and an African-led mediation.
It is not the only way to solve the problem and the ICC has indictments on only four leaders of the LRA. We certainly believe that there needs to be some accountability. Accountability should be done through local justice and national justice systems. This is consistent with our position and the International Criminal Court – which is that when countries have national justice and they hold their people accountable – that is an acceptable route. I understand that the ICC will require that there be some type of trial.
That there needs to be some type of accountability – credible accountability which may include going through a national justice system to satisfy the ICC. The LRA is saying that for them to come out of the bush, they would need those indictments to go away and there has to be a process by which that can happen and I think there is a provision under the Rome Statute. That will have to be worked out between Uganda and the ICC. But I think we can speak with authority since we support this peace process.
Felix Osike (The New Vision): I would like to know what you discussed with the President.
Frazer: We talked extensively about the peace process for the LRA. I asked him about Congo – eastern Congo in particular. We talked about ending the conflict in Somalia and the President talked a lot about economic development of Somalia. We also touched on the African Union and strengthening its capacity.
Felix Osike (The New Vision): While meeting the US Senator recently, the President said he supported the US based on information that Saddam was linked to Al-Qaeda, but afterwards, he said he regretted that position because there is no link to Al-Qaeda at all.
Frazer: I do not know what the basis of his support was. We certainly appreciated it. I think President Bush was clear that we believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. And that he had violated many Security Council resolutions. He had attacked our forces when we were implementing the “no fly†zone. The case was a broader case than a link to terror, particularly with al-Qaeda.
Charles Mwanguhya (Daily Monitor): Are you concerned that there could be a renewed flare up of regional conflict in eastern Congo?
Frazer: I am concerned about the situation in Ituri and north Kivu, about the Nkunda factor, FDLR, but I am pleased that the regional heads of state and the ministers of foreign affairs are in diplomatic discussions, including the meeting between President Museveni and President Kabila that [took] place in Arusha.
Presidents Kagame, Kabila and Museveni have all stated that they want to work together to reduce tension in the region. The diplomatic dialogue is good. But I am concerned about the negative forces in Congo — whether that be the FDLR or the Interahamwe or the LRA. There is need for a solution to the situation with Nkunda. For President Kabila, inter-communal dialogue between different ethnic groups in eastern Congo is extremely important.
His continuing to reach out diplomatically to the neighbouring countries is important, as well. And certainly, at some point, his army needs to be trained and integrated so that they are able to maintain territorial integrity and sovereignty, i.e., deny the use of their territory to these negative forces.
Benon Oluka (The East African): Is there any role the US government is going to play in helping the Congolese Army build the capacity to control congo?
Frazer: Yes. Tim is going to Kinshasa to consult with officials there, including President Kabila, to find out what more the US can do to build the capacity and increase the professionalism of the Congolese army. The solution to eastern Congo, is the inter-communal dialogue. The military should be able to deal with negative forces coming from Rwanda, Uganda and other places and at the same time protect the human rights of the civilians. So, we believe that further training, security sector reform and professionalism will be of help. We are prepared to play that role. We need to consult with President Kabila and his government about what they would want us to do.
Oluka: Do you believe that the neighbours can participate actively in helping the Congolese solve some of these problems?
Frazer: The countries should work together because this is a regional problem. That is not to say that Rwandans or Ugandans need to deploy into Congo, there needs to be a regional effort. That is the diplomatic – but there could also be some type of coordinated operations, if necessary. And not just the three countries, but MONUC as well, which has as its mandate addressing the negative forces.
Tim Cocks:Do you expect these countries to get together on this? Some of them have been accused of supporting some of these negative elements against each other.
Frazer: The US has been facilitating a Tri-Partite Plus mechanism that includes Uganda, Rwanda, Congo and Burundi to try and bring the foreign ministers, defence ministers and chiefs of defence staff or general staff together to work through some of those challenges, to share information and increase confidence among themselves. I think they can cooperate. The more they talk, the more likely they will not make charges against each other that they are supporting forces in each other’s countries.
Charles Mwanguhya: MONUC last night announced that they would back the Congolese forces in the fight against Laurent Nkunda. What is your view on that?
Frazer: We support MONUC working with FARDC to address negative forces. The problem is a political one. The issue is, do the communities in eastern Congo feel part of Congo? Do the minority populations, as one might call them, feel that they have a stake in the Congo as a whole? So, the Banyamulenge and others, you have to make sure there is a political process in place. But when you have a rebellion, an army that is not well integrated, where you have a rebel who is able to pull from the different brigades, that is where the strengthening, the security sector reform, the professionalisation of the army is important.
Every country has a right to crush a rebellion of former members of their military. But that is not to say they have the right to crush communities that are disaffected. That is where the political solution comes in.
He will go to Kinshasa to meet Congolese officials to discuss how the US can help ease tensions in eastern Congo and address the problem of LRA who have their bases in the Garamba Park. After that, he will return to Kampala to address the Tri-Partite-Plus meeting. He will be a regular visitor to Uganda.
We very much support the Juba talks. We applaud the progress in the consultative process, especially the cessation of hostilities, the comprehensive solutions and the principles of accountability and reconciliation. We are looking forward to the conclusion of this process to address ceasefire, demobilisation and re-integration of the former fighters. We do not believe that this should be an open-ended process. We are providing about $110m to emergency and development assistance in northern Uganda. That is within the context of about $450m that we provide to Uganda as a whole.
Tim Cocks (Reuters): It looks like the recent Somalia Reconciliation Conference was not a huge success. The violence got worse and you had daily fights between insurgents and the government. And none of the clan leaders that you needed to stop the violence were on board.
Frazer: We are happy there were talks and people felt the commitment to their country to come to Mogadishu to be part of the talks under the threat of violence. It is wrong to say there was failure or success because this is an ongoing process. It is also important to highlight Uganda’s role with the UPDF serving as the first contingent of the African Union forces.
The success of Somalia will be a process that includes further dialogue and reconciliation, whether through the National Reconciliation Congress or under the framework of the Transitional Federal Charter — the outcome being elections in 2009. Success in Somalia will mean the African Union deploying more forces so that the Ethiopians can withdraw.
Ultimately, we hope to see a major reduction in the violence, but it is not going to be completely non-violent because there are elements that have no interest in dialogue. So we think that their National Reconciliation Congress did a good start. It is an incomplete job, but the whole success of ending violence in Somalia does not and has never rested on the Reconciliation Congress alone.
Cocks (Reuters): How did the Islamic Courts manage to do it then, because they seemed to have brought a period of stability?
Frazer: The Islamic Courts did not bring peace and stability to Somalia. The violence there today was there before. They were spreading violence throughout the country as they moved forward. We have named specific terrorists that were being harboured or were part of the Islamic Courts.
Charles Odongtho (Uganda Radio Network): One of the major problems facing the AU mission in Somalia is funding. Why does it take long for the US to fund other countries to deploy rapidly?
Frazer:We are providing support and assistance the AU force – AMISOM. We are the major funder of the Ugandan troops that have gone into Somalia. We have asked our Congress for about $40m to fund others and Congress has given us the money. We will provide every country that has offered to deploy with at least $2m just to get the deployment under way. We are also providing training for many of these countries and that is actually the holdup. For instance, we have been doing more training with the Burundians. It is not an issue of money, but training.
Other countries are hesitant to deploy because of the violence in Mogadishu. So it is not so much a lack of funding. But we are prepared to support anyone who is prepared to deploy. And we have been encouraging AU members to do so. Burundi has offered for quite a while, but we needed to do further training. We have been talking to the Nigerians as well. But, I do not think the failure is due to US poor funding.
Charles Odongtho (Uganda Radio Network): The US is not a signatory to the Rome Statute. Isn’t it a contradiction that you are pushing for faster peace talks yet the International Criminal Court (ICC) is a factor?
Frazer: We are not signatory to the Rome Statute. We are supporting the peace process, we believe that it is one way to end the conflict in northern Uganda and it is the preferred way of the people of northern Uganda as well as the southern Sudanese. In that light, we are supporting basically an internal process and an African-led mediation.
It is not the only way to solve the problem and the ICC has indictments on only four leaders of the LRA. We certainly believe that there needs to be some accountability. Accountability should be done through local justice and national justice systems. This is consistent with our position and the International Criminal Court – which is that when countries have national justice and they hold their people accountable – that is an acceptable route. I understand that the ICC will require that there be some type of trial.
That there needs to be some type of accountability – credible accountability which may include going through a national justice system to satisfy the ICC. The LRA is saying that for them to come out of the bush, they would need those indictments to go away and there has to be a process by which that can happen and I think there is a provision under the Rome Statute. That will have to be worked out between Uganda and the ICC. But I think we can speak with authority since we support this peace process.
Felix Osike (The New Vision): I would like to know what you discussed with the President.
Frazer: We talked extensively about the peace process for the LRA. I asked him about Congo – eastern Congo in particular. We talked about ending the conflict in Somalia and the President talked a lot about economic development of Somalia. We also touched on the African Union and strengthening its capacity.
Felix Osike (The New Vision): While meeting the US Senator recently, the President said he supported the US based on information that Saddam was linked to Al-Qaeda, but afterwards, he said he regretted that position because there is no link to Al-Qaeda at all.
Frazer: I do not know what the basis of his support was. We certainly appreciated it. I think President Bush was clear that we believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. And that he had violated many Security Council resolutions. He had attacked our forces when we were implementing the “no fly†zone. The case was a broader case than a link to terror, particularly with al-Qaeda.
Charles Mwanguhya (Daily Monitor): Are you concerned that there could be a renewed flare up of regional conflict in eastern Congo?
Frazer: I am concerned about the situation in Ituri and north Kivu, about the Nkunda factor, FDLR, but I am pleased that the regional heads of state and the ministers of foreign affairs are in diplomatic discussions, including the meeting between President Museveni and President Kabila that [took] place in Arusha.
Presidents Kagame, Kabila and Museveni have all stated that they want to work together to reduce tension in the region. The diplomatic dialogue is good. But I am concerned about the negative forces in Congo — whether that be the FDLR or the Interahamwe or the LRA. There is need for a solution to the situation with Nkunda. For President Kabila, inter-communal dialogue between different ethnic groups in eastern Congo is extremely important.
His continuing to reach out diplomatically to the neighbouring countries is important, as well. And certainly, at some point, his army needs to be trained and integrated so that they are able to maintain territorial integrity and sovereignty, i.e., deny the use of their territory to these negative forces.
Benon Oluka (The East African): Is there any role the US government is going to play in helping the Congolese Army build the capacity to control congo?
Frazer: Yes. Tim is going to Kinshasa to consult with officials there, including President Kabila, to find out what more the US can do to build the capacity and increase the professionalism of the Congolese army. The solution to eastern Congo, is the inter-communal dialogue. The military should be able to deal with negative forces coming from Rwanda, Uganda and other places and at the same time protect the human rights of the civilians. So, we believe that further training, security sector reform and professionalism will be of help. We are prepared to play that role. We need to consult with President Kabila and his government about what they would want us to do.
Oluka: Do you believe that the neighbours can participate actively in helping the Congolese solve some of these problems?
Frazer: The countries should work together because this is a regional problem. That is not to say that Rwandans or Ugandans need to deploy into Congo, there needs to be a regional effort. That is the diplomatic – but there could also be some type of coordinated operations, if necessary. And not just the three countries, but MONUC as well, which has as its mandate addressing the negative forces.
Tim Cocks:Do you expect these countries to get together on this? Some of them have been accused of supporting some of these negative elements against each other.
Frazer: The US has been facilitating a Tri-Partite Plus mechanism that includes Uganda, Rwanda, Congo and Burundi to try and bring the foreign ministers, defence ministers and chiefs of defence staff or general staff together to work through some of those challenges, to share information and increase confidence among themselves. I think they can cooperate. The more they talk, the more likely they will not make charges against each other that they are supporting forces in each other’s countries.
Charles Mwanguhya: MONUC last night announced that they would back the Congolese forces in the fight against Laurent Nkunda. What is your view on that?
Frazer: We support MONUC working with FARDC to address negative forces. The problem is a political one. The issue is, do the communities in eastern Congo feel part of Congo? Do the minority populations, as one might call them, feel that they have a stake in the Congo as a whole? So, the Banyamulenge and others, you have to make sure there is a political process in place. But when you have a rebellion, an army that is not well integrated, where you have a rebel who is able to pull from the different brigades, that is where the strengthening, the security sector reform, the professionalisation of the army is important.
Every country has a right to crush a rebellion of former members of their military. But that is not to say they have the right to crush communities that are disaffected. That is where the political solution comes in.