Political federation of East Africa is now irreversible
THE First Deputy Premier and Minister for East Africa, Eriya Kategaya talked to <b>Alfred Wasike</b> and<b> Hamis Kaheru</b> about the latest developments in the East African Community and the roadmap to regional political integration.
THE First Deputy Premier and Minister for East Africa, Eriya Kategaya talked to Alfred Wasike and Hamis Kaheru about the latest developments in the East African Community and the roadmap to regional political integration.
QUESTION: How was the recent presidents’ summit in Arusha?
ANSWER: It was an extra ordinary summit like the one we had in Kampala in June 2007. The ordinary summit will be in November. We had two crucial items on the agenda. One was to consider the reports from the National Consultation Committees of Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda on the question of the fast tracking of the political federation, the second was to discuss the configuration of how we should discuss with the European Community on what they call the EPA (Economic Partnership Agreement). The deadline is end of this year when we should have completed negotiations.
For the EPA, Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi have been negotiating as one group, the East African Community group, while Tanzania has been under the SADC. The danger in going separate ways in the negotiations with the European Community is that in the East Africa Community, we have a Customs Union and under the WTO you cannot belong to two Customs Union blocs. Since last April we have been trying to see if we can have our own EAC Customs Union group negotiating as a bloc. The third one was an amendment to the EAC Treaty following the admission of Rwanda and Burundi. Now we are five members. We are trying to see how they can get into the EAC Secretariat, the Council of Ministers, and the East African Legislative Assembly.
What is the implication of Tanzania’s decision not to support fast tracking?
First of all, let us look at the positive part of it. We are happy that East African people supported the political federation of East Africa. Tanzania had 97%, Uganda had 94%, and Kenya was 90%. That was a big achievement that all the people of East Africa believe that the way forward is to have a big unit. In Kenya and Uganda, people said YES to fast tracking the political federation. In Tanzania, they said, okay we support federation, but there are certain issues which ought to be clarified before we move to political federation. Tanzania said they have experience of what happened with their Tanganyika-Zanzibar union. It has never been conclusively completed.
Their argument is that the late Mwalimu Nyerere and Karume called for a political union without considering other issues which have dogged or been a problem to their union. They also raised the question of land. Land is a common factor as a concern in Uganda and Kenya as well. But the Tanzanians are saying that their country has huge tracts of land that are not occupied whereas their neighbours are congested. Now with the admission of Burundi and Rwanda, they fear that their land will be taken. They also raised the issue of disparities in the EAC economies.
They said that Kenya’s is bigger and more advanced than theirs. This issue was also raised in Uganda. They asked how economies that are not equally endowed or equally developed can be integrated. They are also worried about the competition for jobs with their neighbours. They are saying their education system is not as advanced as Uganda’s. These were their concerns.
The opposition in Uganda doubts the results from Uganda
The results are available in two volumes: one that summarises the views and another with details of names, institutions and addresses of the people interviewed. But it was not a referendum. That is what people forget. The NCC was not asking every body. It was not a referendum. But it was scientifically done.
How far did it go to reach the ordinary person?
We covered all the districts. We then sent questionnaires to individuals in about 18 districts backed by group discussions. It was sampling.
When will trade barriers be lifted?
We have consultants studying non tariff barriers; road blocks, small fees etc. The Council of Ministers is going to sit, study their findings and remove these barriers so that our people can operate freely.
When?
We are targeting 2009 to enable free trade. We want East Africa to be one bloc as was decided in 2002.
How ready are Rwanda and Burundi?
They are ready. They have asked for time to conform to the Customs Union.
How much time?
About a year or so to adjust their budgets to June 15. Their budgets run from January to December. That adjustment will enable them participate in our traditional pre-budget discussions so that all the five of us can read our budgets on the same day of the same month.
Which benefits are Burundi and Rwanda bringing to the EAC?
It increases the size of our market. The problem in Africa are these small fragmented markets. It is our biggest drawback. With the bigger market of 120 million people we shall be able to attract quality investors to transform our economies and then we shall also have clout in the international community as a group. You have seen how the IMF and World Bank come and push us around. Why? Because we are small. The other consequential thing is that EA is a unique region in that we have groups of people with natural identities, which have been separated by these artificial borders. We want to remove these colonial borders that have separated our people who have historical ties. Our borders don’t make sense to our people. We are freeing people from prisons called national boundaries. None of us was there in 1884 when the colonialists drew these border lines.
Is there a real plan to actually do away with those lines?
Yes. When we go to the federation, it will be one country with regional governments. We will not need visas or passports to go from Uganda to Rwanda, Tanzania, Burundi or Kenya. There is a paragraph in the communiqué from the Arusha extra ordinary summit that says that there is a need to move expeditiously towards establishing a common market and a monetary union by 2012 as the EAC moves on to the political federation. So we are saying that by 2012, we should have had a customs union, common market and a monetary union.
How is the common currency going to operate?
Our central bank governors have been meeting to see how they can harmonise the policy. Our finance ministers have to meet every year before the budget to see that policies are harmonised. So we are moving towards that. The other advantage is that all our currencies are convertible across East Africa. We hope that by the time we come to it we should have lined up economic policies on taxation and others. It is a question of political will like they did in Europe to arrive at the euro yet the currencies were not of equal value across Europe. Now the euro has stabilised. But we need to harmonise and stabilise our policies.
What does harmonising policies mean to an mwanainchi?
All the mwanainchi wants is to carry his shilling or whatever you call it, go to Kenya or elsewhere in EA and buy whatever he wants. He does not want to be bothered about foreign exchange. We had a common currency before. When I was a student in Dar es Salaam, I had my post office passbook; I could draw money in Kampala, Nairobi and Dar. I did not need forex.
Will this common currency operate alongside national currencies?
Once we have a common currency, the others get out. We are looking at one central bank. The national ones will be branches of the federal bank. Don’t we have branches of Bank of Uganda in Mbale, Gulu and other towns? What the common man wants is free movement and free trade. These two demands are very common in all reports.
Is it going to be only moving freely or even settling?
I don’t think peasants will just move in big numbers and settle elsewhere. What we should discuss is particularly movement of skilled labour. If I have a factory here, should I not be free to recruit from anywhere in EA?
Are we going to see an amendment to the constitutional provision that a foreigner cannot buy land but can lease?
We have to be careful with that one. For the time being we can say that, for example land in Uganda belongs to this region because when we federate, Uganda will be a region and not a sovereign state. With time, in future, land will not be held the same way it is today. It is important that labour, especially skilled labour, be facilitated to move across freely. For example Kenya has developed manpower over the years. Why not take advantage of that?
What will happen to national anthems?
We shall develop one for the EAC. The national anthems will be like Ekitibwa kya Buganda. The EAC flag will stay. What will change is the map. We are working on including our people in Rwanda and Burundi.
What next with the political federation?
If we complete the customs union, common market and monetary union by 2012, the next agenda will be when to actualise the political federation. The Wako report was talking about 2013, another group was saying let us fast track to 2015. We should work out integration processes which will not be reversible. Once we have customs union, a common market and a monetary union, I don’t see anyone reversing the process. The actual movement will be towards political federation, whether it is two or five years, the road map is very clear. It will be difficult for anyone to walk out of the arrangement.
At what point shall we have one president?
The suggestion is that we should not push much now. I agree with the Wako committee, that we should do it like we did with the Odoki commission that went around the country gathering people’s views. So legal experts will come up with a working document (draft constitution) and go around EA discussing with the people so that by the time we come to the political federation, we shall have worked out the sharing of things. We shall have had a constitution to guide us.
What about travel documents?
The United States is a federal state but it has one passport. Those are the issues that will be put in the constitution. There will be federal and regional matters. Defence, foreign affairs, internal security, and immigration will go to the federal government.
Where will the federal government sit?
By the EAC Treaty, it is Arusha. There are plans to put up headquarters there. Arusha has changed. It is clean and booming. You feel ashamed to litter.
Is the EAC not a financial burden to the member states?
We have an equal contribution of US $4m. Last year we were fully paid. This year not yet because we agreed in the Council of Ministers that we should pay the contribution in full six months after the national budgets.
About defence, will a member of the RPA be posted to the 3rd Division in Mbale or elsewhere?
When we integrate, there will be no RPA, UPDF, TPDF, etc; there will be a federal army. What you are asking about is deployment. Deployment is a simple issue. At the moment Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania have a common training programme at the officer level: junior course at Munduli (Tanzania), middle course at Kimaka (Uganda) and senior course in Kenya. We are now carrying out joint exercises. We have done three at Munduli, Nairobi and Jinja. Next year we are going to have a big one where we shall have live ammunition in Munduli. We are exchanging intelligence information. There is an EAC police chiefs' conference. The policy is to integrate the forces for the security of the region.
What about sharing natural resources like oil and others?
Our approach is that if we get our oil, it will be at the disposal of East Africa and beyond. In fact in our last meeting, we asked why we should have refineries in Kampala, Dar or Mombasa. We are focusing on energy for the whole region. We can share these resources for the benefit of our region and beyond.
QUESTION: How was the recent presidents’ summit in Arusha?
ANSWER: It was an extra ordinary summit like the one we had in Kampala in June 2007. The ordinary summit will be in November. We had two crucial items on the agenda. One was to consider the reports from the National Consultation Committees of Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda on the question of the fast tracking of the political federation, the second was to discuss the configuration of how we should discuss with the European Community on what they call the EPA (Economic Partnership Agreement). The deadline is end of this year when we should have completed negotiations.
For the EPA, Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi have been negotiating as one group, the East African Community group, while Tanzania has been under the SADC. The danger in going separate ways in the negotiations with the European Community is that in the East Africa Community, we have a Customs Union and under the WTO you cannot belong to two Customs Union blocs. Since last April we have been trying to see if we can have our own EAC Customs Union group negotiating as a bloc. The third one was an amendment to the EAC Treaty following the admission of Rwanda and Burundi. Now we are five members. We are trying to see how they can get into the EAC Secretariat, the Council of Ministers, and the East African Legislative Assembly.
What is the implication of Tanzania’s decision not to support fast tracking?
First of all, let us look at the positive part of it. We are happy that East African people supported the political federation of East Africa. Tanzania had 97%, Uganda had 94%, and Kenya was 90%. That was a big achievement that all the people of East Africa believe that the way forward is to have a big unit. In Kenya and Uganda, people said YES to fast tracking the political federation. In Tanzania, they said, okay we support federation, but there are certain issues which ought to be clarified before we move to political federation. Tanzania said they have experience of what happened with their Tanganyika-Zanzibar union. It has never been conclusively completed.
Their argument is that the late Mwalimu Nyerere and Karume called for a political union without considering other issues which have dogged or been a problem to their union. They also raised the question of land. Land is a common factor as a concern in Uganda and Kenya as well. But the Tanzanians are saying that their country has huge tracts of land that are not occupied whereas their neighbours are congested. Now with the admission of Burundi and Rwanda, they fear that their land will be taken. They also raised the issue of disparities in the EAC economies.
They said that Kenya’s is bigger and more advanced than theirs. This issue was also raised in Uganda. They asked how economies that are not equally endowed or equally developed can be integrated. They are also worried about the competition for jobs with their neighbours. They are saying their education system is not as advanced as Uganda’s. These were their concerns.
The opposition in Uganda doubts the results from Uganda
The results are available in two volumes: one that summarises the views and another with details of names, institutions and addresses of the people interviewed. But it was not a referendum. That is what people forget. The NCC was not asking every body. It was not a referendum. But it was scientifically done.
How far did it go to reach the ordinary person?
We covered all the districts. We then sent questionnaires to individuals in about 18 districts backed by group discussions. It was sampling.
When will trade barriers be lifted?
We have consultants studying non tariff barriers; road blocks, small fees etc. The Council of Ministers is going to sit, study their findings and remove these barriers so that our people can operate freely.
When?
We are targeting 2009 to enable free trade. We want East Africa to be one bloc as was decided in 2002.
How ready are Rwanda and Burundi?
They are ready. They have asked for time to conform to the Customs Union.
How much time?
About a year or so to adjust their budgets to June 15. Their budgets run from January to December. That adjustment will enable them participate in our traditional pre-budget discussions so that all the five of us can read our budgets on the same day of the same month.
Which benefits are Burundi and Rwanda bringing to the EAC?
It increases the size of our market. The problem in Africa are these small fragmented markets. It is our biggest drawback. With the bigger market of 120 million people we shall be able to attract quality investors to transform our economies and then we shall also have clout in the international community as a group. You have seen how the IMF and World Bank come and push us around. Why? Because we are small. The other consequential thing is that EA is a unique region in that we have groups of people with natural identities, which have been separated by these artificial borders. We want to remove these colonial borders that have separated our people who have historical ties. Our borders don’t make sense to our people. We are freeing people from prisons called national boundaries. None of us was there in 1884 when the colonialists drew these border lines.
Is there a real plan to actually do away with those lines?
Yes. When we go to the federation, it will be one country with regional governments. We will not need visas or passports to go from Uganda to Rwanda, Tanzania, Burundi or Kenya. There is a paragraph in the communiqué from the Arusha extra ordinary summit that says that there is a need to move expeditiously towards establishing a common market and a monetary union by 2012 as the EAC moves on to the political federation. So we are saying that by 2012, we should have had a customs union, common market and a monetary union.
How is the common currency going to operate?
Our central bank governors have been meeting to see how they can harmonise the policy. Our finance ministers have to meet every year before the budget to see that policies are harmonised. So we are moving towards that. The other advantage is that all our currencies are convertible across East Africa. We hope that by the time we come to it we should have lined up economic policies on taxation and others. It is a question of political will like they did in Europe to arrive at the euro yet the currencies were not of equal value across Europe. Now the euro has stabilised. But we need to harmonise and stabilise our policies.
What does harmonising policies mean to an mwanainchi?
All the mwanainchi wants is to carry his shilling or whatever you call it, go to Kenya or elsewhere in EA and buy whatever he wants. He does not want to be bothered about foreign exchange. We had a common currency before. When I was a student in Dar es Salaam, I had my post office passbook; I could draw money in Kampala, Nairobi and Dar. I did not need forex.
Will this common currency operate alongside national currencies?
Once we have a common currency, the others get out. We are looking at one central bank. The national ones will be branches of the federal bank. Don’t we have branches of Bank of Uganda in Mbale, Gulu and other towns? What the common man wants is free movement and free trade. These two demands are very common in all reports.
Is it going to be only moving freely or even settling?
I don’t think peasants will just move in big numbers and settle elsewhere. What we should discuss is particularly movement of skilled labour. If I have a factory here, should I not be free to recruit from anywhere in EA?
Are we going to see an amendment to the constitutional provision that a foreigner cannot buy land but can lease?
We have to be careful with that one. For the time being we can say that, for example land in Uganda belongs to this region because when we federate, Uganda will be a region and not a sovereign state. With time, in future, land will not be held the same way it is today. It is important that labour, especially skilled labour, be facilitated to move across freely. For example Kenya has developed manpower over the years. Why not take advantage of that?
What will happen to national anthems?
We shall develop one for the EAC. The national anthems will be like Ekitibwa kya Buganda. The EAC flag will stay. What will change is the map. We are working on including our people in Rwanda and Burundi.
What next with the political federation?
If we complete the customs union, common market and monetary union by 2012, the next agenda will be when to actualise the political federation. The Wako report was talking about 2013, another group was saying let us fast track to 2015. We should work out integration processes which will not be reversible. Once we have customs union, a common market and a monetary union, I don’t see anyone reversing the process. The actual movement will be towards political federation, whether it is two or five years, the road map is very clear. It will be difficult for anyone to walk out of the arrangement.
At what point shall we have one president?
The suggestion is that we should not push much now. I agree with the Wako committee, that we should do it like we did with the Odoki commission that went around the country gathering people’s views. So legal experts will come up with a working document (draft constitution) and go around EA discussing with the people so that by the time we come to the political federation, we shall have worked out the sharing of things. We shall have had a constitution to guide us.
What about travel documents?
The United States is a federal state but it has one passport. Those are the issues that will be put in the constitution. There will be federal and regional matters. Defence, foreign affairs, internal security, and immigration will go to the federal government.
Where will the federal government sit?
By the EAC Treaty, it is Arusha. There are plans to put up headquarters there. Arusha has changed. It is clean and booming. You feel ashamed to litter.
Is the EAC not a financial burden to the member states?
We have an equal contribution of US $4m. Last year we were fully paid. This year not yet because we agreed in the Council of Ministers that we should pay the contribution in full six months after the national budgets.
About defence, will a member of the RPA be posted to the 3rd Division in Mbale or elsewhere?
When we integrate, there will be no RPA, UPDF, TPDF, etc; there will be a federal army. What you are asking about is deployment. Deployment is a simple issue. At the moment Uganda, Kenya and Tanzania have a common training programme at the officer level: junior course at Munduli (Tanzania), middle course at Kimaka (Uganda) and senior course in Kenya. We are now carrying out joint exercises. We have done three at Munduli, Nairobi and Jinja. Next year we are going to have a big one where we shall have live ammunition in Munduli. We are exchanging intelligence information. There is an EAC police chiefs' conference. The policy is to integrate the forces for the security of the region.
What about sharing natural resources like oil and others?
Our approach is that if we get our oil, it will be at the disposal of East Africa and beyond. In fact in our last meeting, we asked why we should have refineries in Kampala, Dar or Mombasa. We are focusing on energy for the whole region. We can share these resources for the benefit of our region and beyond.