Judge queries witness: Day 4
Apr 11, 2006
IT is day 4 into the treason trial of Col. Kizza Besigye and 22 others alleged to have connections to the Peoples rede-mption Army. Justice Vincent Kagaba presides over the trial. Deputy Director of Public Prosecution Simon Mugenyi Byabakama (BM) conducts the State case. Six lawyers led by Sam Kaleg
IT is day 4 into the treason trial of Col. Kizza Besigye and 22 others alleged to have connections to the Peoples rede-mption Army. Justice Vincent Kagaba presides over the trial. Deputy Director of Public Prosecution Simon Mugenyi Byabakama (BM) conducts the State case. Six lawyers led by Sam Kalega Njuba (SN) assisted by John Matovu (JM), David Mpanga (DM), Kiyemba Mutale (KY), Yusuf Nsibambi (YN), Caleb Alaka (CA) and Mark Bwenje (MB) represent the defence. There are five interpreters for Aringa, Kakwa, Swahilli, Kinyankore and the one for Acholi is replaced owing to yesterday’s order. Hillary Kiirya, Anne Mugisa and Hillary Nsambu covered the proceedings
AT 9:40am, the judge enters and the clerk reads out the case number as the suspects rise.
Kagaba: Are all the accused persons present?
BM: Yes my Lord, prison authorities inform me that they are all present.
Kagaba: Are all the interpreters present?
BM: Yes they are.
A new interpreter for Acholi, Agnes Julian Ocitti is introduced to court and the judge asks her whether she is a born of Acholi and not Kampala. She answers saying she is born of Acholi.
Kagaba: Ocitti, how old are you? What do you do and where do you stay?
Ocitti: 25 years, doing post-graduate diploma at LDC and I stay in Wandegeya.
She takes oath to take on the task of interpreter.
BM: My Lord PW1 is still on the witnesses stand.
Kagaba: Where is she?
BM: That is what I was trying to explain. I received a call from Police CID headquarters that PW1 is sick and she was being taken to hospital for treatment.
Kagaba: Which hospital?
BM: I do not know. I was not told which hospital and I was perturbed with the news. I told Police that let the witnesses be brought to court first.
Kagaba: Which Police?
BM: ASSP Womanya. I told them that the witness would rather be brought to court first before going to hospital.
Kagaba: How does she go to Police? She is a property of court and how does she go to Police?
BM: Police coordinates the witnesses my Lord.
Kagaba: Why don’t we track her on phone and tell her that court is waiting for her and we see what time she is coming? These unnecessary adjournments will not be allowed. How many minutes should we give you?
BM: About 15 minutes my Lord.
Njuba rises up, saying the defence is really disturbed by the development.
SN: A similar incident happened, the learned deputy DPP testified in the previous case that a witness was sick and yet she was partying with the President. Actually when she appeared the following day, she denied having been sick. We suspect the State is after something else. We have 22 people illegally detained despite the orders of this Court. The DPP said he had 60 witnesses. Instead of wasting time at the expense of our clients, let us bring another witness and we proceed. I am not disputing what the DPP has said but I am concerned about what is happening.
Kagaba: Mr. Mugenyi, what do you have to say about this?
BM: My Lord I relay information provided to me by Police and even the previous case I did the same. It was Police who gave the information. On the issue of calling another witness, I would not have any problem but this is the first witness in the case and has not finished her evidence. The defence has not gone far with her and the others are also waiting to cross-examine her. We should do things in an organised fashion.
If we bring another witness, we shall mix up the evidence. At the beginning I indicated that this witness is sickly. While she goes for treatment, we do not know when she will be fit to testify. I would raise her so that she can come and put up her appearance in Court.
Kagaba: My concern is about what you have said that she is a sickly person. Are we going to adjourn this case whenever she falls sick? For how long shall we do this and what will happen to the trial?
BM: That is why I said she should be taking something during the proceedings.
Kagaba: We shall allow her with limitation. But expeditious trail as is stipulated in the Constitution should be observed. This case may not be expeditious. Do not worry about my record being disrupted by other witnesses. You can bring them and we jump to other pages.
BM: I thought of that this morning but owing to the order of yesterday of witnesses not interacting with other people, I did not want to bring them and start hovering around the court premises. But my Lord if you granted an adjournment for today, I would ensure that I bring them.
Kagaba: I am not rising from the seat. Talk to the witness on phone and Mr. Matovu will monitor you.
Byabakama moves out to call the witness on phone and Matovu follows him, as the judge remains seated waiting for the outcome. Shortly after a few minutes the two return to court
BM: I would like to report to court that I called the number on the Police statement but it was not available. However, I talked to Womanya and he said the witness was about to arrive. Even Matovu talked to Womanya and he told him she was about to arrive.
JM: My Lord I do not know whether I talked to Womanya but I talked to someone who said the witness was coming.
Kagaba: For how long should we adjourn?
BM: About 15 minutes.
Shortly after the court adjourned, the witness is driven to court and taken direct to the dock before the judge comes back. At exactly 10:33am the judge returns to court
Kagaba: What is your name? Is it Aryem or Aryemo?
Witness: Aryem.
Kagaba: I said this because I read different names in the press.
BM: That is how they are. The journalists yell at him, causing laughter in court.
Kagaba: I want to remind you that you are still on oath. I understand you are sick.
Aryem: I am sick. They have did operation on my throat and ears two months ago and if I talk it still pains me.
Kagaba: Are you feeling well?
Aryem: No.
Kagaba: What treatment did you take?
Aryem: Only panadols.
Kagaba: Where did you get it?
Aryem: I bought them from a clinic near where I stay.
Kagaba: Between that time you were supposed to be here and now where have you been?
Aryem: I could not get up early.
Kagaba: What time did you wake up?
Aryem: 8:15.
Kagaba: And you had breakfast.
Aryem: yes.
Kagaba: What time did you set off from your house?
Aryem: I did not look at the watch to get the exact time.
Kagaba: Did you come by taxi?
Aryem: The Police sent a vehicle to come for me.
Kagaba: What vehicle.
Aryem: Pick-up.
Kagaba: Where do you stay?
Aryem: Between Mulago and Kyebando.
Kagaba: They picked you from home and dropped you here?
Aryemo: Yes.
Kagaba: So when the Police picked you is it when you bought the tablets?
Aryem: I bought them yesterday.
Laughter in court after she contradicted what Byabakama had told court
Kagaba: You said you have a problem with your ear.
Aryem: Yes my Lord.
Kagaba: I appreciate your sickness but if you feel at any time of the trial you are not feeling well you tell me and when you feel like drinking something you tell me in the course of the proceedings.
Aryem: Thank you my Lord.
Kagaba: Do you have water?
Aryem: No. Because I just came to report that I cannot talk much today.
Kagaba: you cannot talk because of what?
Aryem: I have pain in my ears and throat and I want to go and see the doctor.
Kagaba: It seems the witness is not ready to give her evidence and we can’t force her to proceed with the trail.
SN: My Lord, since you have reported what has taken place we leave it to court.
Kagaba: Mr. Mugenyi, what is your proposal?
BM: It would appear that even tomorrow we may not be ready to proceed.
Kagaba: Since it is a problem of ear and throat we can give her a rest until tomorrow. Do you think you can talk tomorrow?
Aryem: I will get the view from the doctor.
Kagaba: How shall we know what the doctor will have said?
Aryem: I will bring the medical form.
Kagaba: Tomorrow is what?
BM: Wednesday.
Kagaba: This is what I have to say: Aryem the witness should continue with her treatment but whether she is able to talk or not, she should report to court tomorrow at 9:00am.
Court adjourns.
AT 9:40am, the judge enters and the clerk reads out the case number as the suspects rise.
Kagaba: Are all the accused persons present?
BM: Yes my Lord, prison authorities inform me that they are all present.
Kagaba: Are all the interpreters present?
BM: Yes they are.
A new interpreter for Acholi, Agnes Julian Ocitti is introduced to court and the judge asks her whether she is a born of Acholi and not Kampala. She answers saying she is born of Acholi.
Kagaba: Ocitti, how old are you? What do you do and where do you stay?
Ocitti: 25 years, doing post-graduate diploma at LDC and I stay in Wandegeya.
She takes oath to take on the task of interpreter.
BM: My Lord PW1 is still on the witnesses stand.
Kagaba: Where is she?
BM: That is what I was trying to explain. I received a call from Police CID headquarters that PW1 is sick and she was being taken to hospital for treatment.
Kagaba: Which hospital?
BM: I do not know. I was not told which hospital and I was perturbed with the news. I told Police that let the witnesses be brought to court first.
Kagaba: Which Police?
BM: ASSP Womanya. I told them that the witness would rather be brought to court first before going to hospital.
Kagaba: How does she go to Police? She is a property of court and how does she go to Police?
BM: Police coordinates the witnesses my Lord.
Kagaba: Why don’t we track her on phone and tell her that court is waiting for her and we see what time she is coming? These unnecessary adjournments will not be allowed. How many minutes should we give you?
BM: About 15 minutes my Lord.
Njuba rises up, saying the defence is really disturbed by the development.
SN: A similar incident happened, the learned deputy DPP testified in the previous case that a witness was sick and yet she was partying with the President. Actually when she appeared the following day, she denied having been sick. We suspect the State is after something else. We have 22 people illegally detained despite the orders of this Court. The DPP said he had 60 witnesses. Instead of wasting time at the expense of our clients, let us bring another witness and we proceed. I am not disputing what the DPP has said but I am concerned about what is happening.
Kagaba: Mr. Mugenyi, what do you have to say about this?
BM: My Lord I relay information provided to me by Police and even the previous case I did the same. It was Police who gave the information. On the issue of calling another witness, I would not have any problem but this is the first witness in the case and has not finished her evidence. The defence has not gone far with her and the others are also waiting to cross-examine her. We should do things in an organised fashion.
If we bring another witness, we shall mix up the evidence. At the beginning I indicated that this witness is sickly. While she goes for treatment, we do not know when she will be fit to testify. I would raise her so that she can come and put up her appearance in Court.
Kagaba: My concern is about what you have said that she is a sickly person. Are we going to adjourn this case whenever she falls sick? For how long shall we do this and what will happen to the trial?
BM: That is why I said she should be taking something during the proceedings.
Kagaba: We shall allow her with limitation. But expeditious trail as is stipulated in the Constitution should be observed. This case may not be expeditious. Do not worry about my record being disrupted by other witnesses. You can bring them and we jump to other pages.
BM: I thought of that this morning but owing to the order of yesterday of witnesses not interacting with other people, I did not want to bring them and start hovering around the court premises. But my Lord if you granted an adjournment for today, I would ensure that I bring them.
Kagaba: I am not rising from the seat. Talk to the witness on phone and Mr. Matovu will monitor you.
Byabakama moves out to call the witness on phone and Matovu follows him, as the judge remains seated waiting for the outcome. Shortly after a few minutes the two return to court
BM: I would like to report to court that I called the number on the Police statement but it was not available. However, I talked to Womanya and he said the witness was about to arrive. Even Matovu talked to Womanya and he told him she was about to arrive.
JM: My Lord I do not know whether I talked to Womanya but I talked to someone who said the witness was coming.
Kagaba: For how long should we adjourn?
BM: About 15 minutes.
Shortly after the court adjourned, the witness is driven to court and taken direct to the dock before the judge comes back. At exactly 10:33am the judge returns to court
Kagaba: What is your name? Is it Aryem or Aryemo?
Witness: Aryem.
Kagaba: I said this because I read different names in the press.
BM: That is how they are. The journalists yell at him, causing laughter in court.
Kagaba: I want to remind you that you are still on oath. I understand you are sick.
Aryem: I am sick. They have did operation on my throat and ears two months ago and if I talk it still pains me.
Kagaba: Are you feeling well?
Aryem: No.
Kagaba: What treatment did you take?
Aryem: Only panadols.
Kagaba: Where did you get it?
Aryem: I bought them from a clinic near where I stay.
Kagaba: Between that time you were supposed to be here and now where have you been?
Aryem: I could not get up early.
Kagaba: What time did you wake up?
Aryem: 8:15.
Kagaba: And you had breakfast.
Aryem: yes.
Kagaba: What time did you set off from your house?
Aryem: I did not look at the watch to get the exact time.
Kagaba: Did you come by taxi?
Aryem: The Police sent a vehicle to come for me.
Kagaba: What vehicle.
Aryem: Pick-up.
Kagaba: Where do you stay?
Aryem: Between Mulago and Kyebando.
Kagaba: They picked you from home and dropped you here?
Aryemo: Yes.
Kagaba: So when the Police picked you is it when you bought the tablets?
Aryem: I bought them yesterday.
Laughter in court after she contradicted what Byabakama had told court
Kagaba: You said you have a problem with your ear.
Aryem: Yes my Lord.
Kagaba: I appreciate your sickness but if you feel at any time of the trial you are not feeling well you tell me and when you feel like drinking something you tell me in the course of the proceedings.
Aryem: Thank you my Lord.
Kagaba: Do you have water?
Aryem: No. Because I just came to report that I cannot talk much today.
Kagaba: you cannot talk because of what?
Aryem: I have pain in my ears and throat and I want to go and see the doctor.
Kagaba: It seems the witness is not ready to give her evidence and we can’t force her to proceed with the trail.
SN: My Lord, since you have reported what has taken place we leave it to court.
Kagaba: Mr. Mugenyi, what is your proposal?
BM: It would appear that even tomorrow we may not be ready to proceed.
Kagaba: Since it is a problem of ear and throat we can give her a rest until tomorrow. Do you think you can talk tomorrow?
Aryem: I will get the view from the doctor.
Kagaba: How shall we know what the doctor will have said?
Aryem: I will bring the medical form.
Kagaba: Tomorrow is what?
BM: Wednesday.
Kagaba: This is what I have to say: Aryem the witness should continue with her treatment but whether she is able to talk or not, she should report to court tomorrow at 9:00am.
Court adjourns.