Saleh Accepts Blame For Introducing CSC Company

The judicial commission into the purchase of combat helicopters for the army has summoned the 17th witness, Maj Gen Salim Saleh. Justice Julia Ssebutinde heads the hearing assisted by Mr. Geoffrey Kiryabwire. Maureen Owor is the lead counsel and Robinah Gureme Rwakoojo is secretary. Milton Olupot, Anne Mugisa and Alfred Wasike covered the proceedings. Owor: The commission's witness number 17 is Maj. Gen. Salim Saleh, can you please take oath? (he does). Could you tell the commission your name and rank? Saleh: I'm called Caleb Akandwanaho also known as Salim Saleh son of Esteri and Amos Kaguta and I'm 41 years old. Owor: What is your rank? Saleh: Major General, retired. Owor: What are your qualifications? Saleh: I was educated at Rushere primary school, Mbarara Junior school, Kako junior, then Kako secondary school for one term and then I was taken out of school and taken to Mozambique...In 1998, I went back to s4 and I finished my A-Level last year? Owor: Any qualifications related to the army? Saleh: I did a leadership course at the Jinja school of Infantry in 1980 and was commissioned as 2nd Lt. of UNLA. Owor: Could you tell the commission about the progress of your career in the army? Saleh: I did a two-year course in Mozambique for the revolutionary warfare and ideological studies from 1978 and 1979. From jinja, I was the Liaison officer for Fronansa. After the course in Jinja, I was posted to Moroto 14th Battalion as officer-in-charge Support Company. When the NRA went to the bush, I was imprisoned in Moroto for about four months in 1981. The bush people made arrangements and I was released and I joined them. I became a member of the High Command and the NRC which was the political organ of the struggle. I was deployed in the rapid reaction force which was a special unit and in 1982, I was 2nd in command Mondlane Unit. From 1983, I became commander of the Mobile forces whose job it was to attack the national forces. This is the force that attacked Masindi, Kabamba 3, Mubende, Masaka siege, Katonga bridge and Kampala assault. In 1986, we captured power. I became the first Chief of Combat operations. Owor: how long did you serve as Chief of Combat Operations? Saleh: I served until may 1989...The bush ranks were regularised in 1988 and, my lord, that is when I became a Major General...In May 1989, I was appointed Army Commander of NRA. Owor: How long did you serve as Army Commander? Saleh: Until November 1989. Then I was retired from active service and posted to the reserve force. Owor: What is the Reserve force? Saleh: It is part of the armed forces, provided for under the armed Forces Statute. It is a force which can re-enforce the army in times of need and established under the law but not administratively established because of the financial constraints. Owor: Did you have any responsibilities in the reserve force? Saleh: Since I was most senior, I was presumed the head. Owor: From 1989, what other appointments did you get? Saleh: Special operations rwanda 1990-1994 as Liaison officer. Owor: After 1994? Saleh: Redundant (causes laughter in the room). Owor: Any other appointments? Saleh: No, up to 1996, when I was posted to the North as the Presidential advisor on military and political affairs for a two-year contract which ended in 1998. Owor: Any other appointment? Saleh: In February 1998, I became the Overseer Ministry of Defence until august 1998 when a substantive minister was appointed. And then my contract was renewed and I was elevated to senior Presidential Advisor on defence and security matters until December 1998 when I resigned. Owor: Is resignation the same as retirement? Saleh: This was in the civil service and not in the army. Owor: Which? Saleh: The Presidential Advisor....Then I went back to school for my O' level and in 1999 for my A' level and private life. Owor: Did you ever have any other positions of responsibility in the army at this time? Saleh: No. I was in the reserve force on call and as original member of the high Command, I still sit on the High Command because that is what the law says. Owor: I would like to take you back to 1996 when you were in the north as special advisor to the President on military and political affairs. Saleh: (reads out his appointment then says) I was appointed advisor to help the 4th Division command and the entire command in the north to help eliminate the enemy banditry. I was supposed to assess the enemy, military and political situations and brief the president on steps to eliminate banditry. Owor: Were you in active combat at this time? Saleh: Sometimes. Owor: How was the situation in the north at that time? Saleh: By the time I was deployed in the north, law and order had almost broken down, the major road network had been broken off by the LRA rebels. The enemy was very active in big formations and there were areas which were no-go areas for the UPDF. Owor: What was your strength in terms of artillery. Saleh: The heavy artillery, we had enough, but it was not useful against these mobile guerrilla forces. Owor: What do you think would have been useful in the situation? Saleh: I forgot to tell you that there were a lot of mines. The enemy had planted anti-tank and anti-personnel mines. So we needed a needs assessment to build up anti-mine capability. We needed man power to zonalise the areas so that the entire area is circulated, rebuild units hence calling up the reserve and we also needed air combat power apart from logistics of uniforms, food and medical facilities. Owor: What kind of air power did you need? Saleh: The pilots then were using MI-17 which are transport helicopters. These are for transport and pilots were recommending another type of helicopter, either MI-35 or MI-24. Owor: Which pilots? Saleh: I can't remember...but it was from my own observation and talking to pilots. I found we needed combat helicopters. We made a needs assessment which was not only on air combat...but for the total force. We availed the needs assessment plan to the army headquarters and the combat helicopters were part of it. Owor: Who did you give the plan to at the Army headquarters? Saleh: I think the OC 4th division forwarded the plan to the Army Commander. Owor: Did you specify any helicopters? Saleh: No, we did not specify. Owor: When did the plan get forwarded? Saleh: I think a month after I was deployed there. I was deployed in May. That should have been June. We discussed it and they said they will allocate resources for it. This was verbal. The needs assessment was in writing and the response as to the funding was verbal.... Owor: Did they get the funds? Saleh: Yes... Owor: During the period you were still in the north? Saleh: Around about that period, that is where I got involved with the combat helicopters. Owor: Okay, tell us about the helicopters. Which ones anyway? Saleh: Around the month of June, the President visited us in Gulu and verbally asked me whether I knew people who could avail us the MI-24 but be paid the next financial year. I said I would try and at that time, the helicopters were not available for the Sub-Saharan africa region...We were made to believe that they were only in Angola and Ethiopia. This was in June when my former business associate contacted me. He is called Kwame Ruyondo. He told me that another colleague of his had access to a lot of war material. This was when I was in Kampala. Then he arranged a meeting which was two fold. Initially, I went to see his partner about supplying to me a vehicle on credit and when we were discussing the vehicle, he produced a file of different types of armaments. Ssebutinde: And who is this associate of Kwame? Saleh: Emmanuel Katto. We discussed the entire list. It included combat and transport helicopters, ammunition and different types of equipment. Owor: Was he an arms dealer? Saleh: He was a defence supplier but I don't know what it was he supplied. Owor: Did you know if he previously dealt in military equipment? Saleh: No. Owor: So what did you discuss in the meeting with him? Saleh: The prices of the MI-24 which are not different from MI-35. Owor: Which price did he say? Saleh: I don't remember exactly because it was not determined. However, I told him to make a formal offer so I could take it to the army authorities. He said there was something for me. Owor: What was this something? Saleh: A commission. Owor: Did he say how much? Did you ask? Saleh: No, I didn't. We ended there. Then he said he would get me the vehicle and that I could pay later. Owor: Was Katto the supplier? Saleh: He said he had a company which had another company which had the monopoly for military equipment. Ssebutinde: When he said he had a company, what did it mean? Saleh: I presumed he owned it, my lord. Owor: Where was the meeting held? Saleh: At his offices at NIS Uganda (Kampala). Owor: Was Ruyondo part of the meeting? Saleh: No, he was not present. Owor: What happened? Did he present a formal offer? Saleh: The offer was brought to me in July, I think. Owor: Who brought it? Saleh: I think it was Kwame Ruyondo. Owor: you recall where Kwame met you to give you the offer? Saleh: He brought it to Gulu. He came with Emma Katto...I don't remember whether there was a Mzungu (a White)... Owor: What was your impression of the offer? Saleh: I thought it was good. Owor: Why? Saleh: We had information in 1996 that refurbished helicopters would cost US$3m but when we saw these, they were at US$1.5m. Owor: Where did you get the information? Saleh: We had been searching for them previously and I had made my own private inquiries. Owor: Was there anything you noted about this offer? Saleh: My worry was whether he would be able to supply at those prices ...So I advised them to take the offer to the Army Commander because he was the one in charge of the army procurement. Owor: Were you not involved in procurements? Saleh: No. Owor: Why didn't Katto sign the offer? Saleh: I asked him and he said that Max Waterman was the senior partner.... He said they supplied aircraft to Sri Lanka, West Africa....Katto said he was a director of CSC. He said that their head office is in London...I told him to go to the Army Commander. Owor: when was the next time you met anyone in connection with the helicopter deal? Saleh: The next time I saw them, that is Kwame, it was in July 1997. I never saw Katto again. But earlier, I saw Kwame in December or earlier on in 1996 That is when he had brought the mzungu. I think he was Chris somebody... Owor: Smith? Saleh: Yes, Chris Smith. He came to Gulu with Kwame... he talked a lot and tried to exhibit his expert knowledge in arms sales, his credentials in the army, then about counter insurgency... We didn't talk for a long time because we were under pressure from the rebels... Owor: What was your impression of the mzungu? Saleh: I wanted to see whether the mzungu existed and what sort of person he was. He had also insisted that he wanted to see... Owor: What was your opinion? Saleh: I was still skeptical because getting those helicopters was not easy. Owor: Did Katto tell you where the helicopters would be got from? Saleh: Belarus. That it was a Ministry of Defence department responsible for arms sales. Owor: Did he tell you the name of the company? Saleh: Only Ministry of Defence department responsible for selling arms. Owor: Did you think of the possibility of the government dealing directly with the government of Belarus? Saleh: He gave me the impression that it was only through agents. Owor: Who gave you the impression? Saleh: The mzungu, Katto and even Kwame. Owor: Did you believe it? Saleh: Yes, it is normal practice...At that time, I believed it but when the deal started faltering that was when BT came visibly out. Otherwise, it would be better to deal with BT but BT had also appointed agents for sales to Asia, Middle east, Europe and Africa. Owor: Who was Smith? Saleh: He said he was a professional soldier. At least he had more knowledge on the helicopters than I did. Owor: Did he strike you as honest? Saleh: I did not form a judgement then. Owor: But Ruyondo said here that you did not seem happy with the mzungu. Saleh: That is the skepticism I talked about but it wasn't crystal clear. Owor: Did you have any other meeting with CSC officials when you were in Gulu? Saleh: When Kwame went to Belarus, I don't know whom he went with but when he returned, he brought me an album full of photographs of helicopters. Owor: Did you know who sent Kwame? Saleh: No. Owor: But he said here that he went at your instigation. Saleh: He went with Katto...he was the one who introduced Katto to me. Owor: (reads letter written by Katto to Kwame which talked of the 15% commission for Kwame and asked if Saleh did not think the deal included his (Saleh's) companies since Kwame was working for them) Saleh: He was in on this deal on his own. Ssebutinde: Ruyondo said that he worked for your companies Calebs International and Efforte Corporation. Saleh: It is true but for the contract, he wasn't working for Calebs or Efforte. Ssebutinde: We are not suggesting that. We are wondering what relationship he had with you. Saleh: He was working with us but in this deal, he was working for CSC. Ssebutinde: You are not sure of that. Saleh: No. Ssebutinde: But he was holding two posts in your companies at that time... Saleh: I don't remember well, but it is possible. Owor: What did he say about the photographs? Saleh: I saw the helicopters, very many, I saw him standing near them and other people. He said out of the 4,000 helicopters, they had chosen four requested by Uganda and he said they were in good condition and could be refurbished and used. Owor: Did he tell you who he went with? Saleh: No. Owor: didn't you wonder how he knew that Uganda wanted four helicopters? Saleh: No, I think he had information. Owor: Do you know a lawyer called William Byaruhanga? Saleh: Yes. He was a lawyer for my companies. Owor: Did he come to Gulu with the CSC officials? Saleh: No. Owor: Has he ever advised you on the helicopters? Saleh: No. Owor: What did you discuss with Kwame after the visit to Belarus? Saleh: I told him that Defence was sending a team to inspect the helicopters. The pre-purchase inspection. Owor: Sometime in october, did the President ever talk to you about this purchase? Saleh: No, but when he came to Gulu, I think in October, I saw the Airforce people go to him. I got to know that they were evaluating the offer of CSC. Owor: Were you part of the meeting? Saleh: I was just there and I got to know. Owor: Where did they get the offer from? Saleh: From the President. The one I had given him. I had given him a copy. Owor: When did you give it to him? Saleh: Either in July or august because he was frequenting Gulu. Owor: Did you have other offers to compare with CSC? Saleh: No. Owor: Didn't you think it wise to have more than one offer to choose from? Saleh: I think it would be proper. Owor: Was it done in this case? Saleh: No, not this time...airforce people ought to have a library. Ssebutinde: Did the President tell you his decision? Saleh: No. (Saleh said no official in the Ministry of Defence contacted him about the decision). Kiryabwire (GK): would you be comfortable to deal with Emma Katto? Saleh: Then or now? GK: then? Saleh: I didn't know him. GK: and now? Saleh: he is very shrewd, very quick and he seems to have credit. Ssebutinde: seems successful. Saleh: yes. But I don't think I would touch anything that he touches. GK: did it ever cross your mind to use security agencies to check on CSC? Saleh: I thought it would be done by general staff at army headquarters. They normally carry out very strict verification. GK: we have been having a bit of a problem trying to reconcile the role played by Ruyondo. On one hand, he is employed in your companies and on the other hand, he comes to you fronting Katto, CSC and he is contracting separately. Don't you see a form of conflict in the procurement of the helicopters? Saleh: it is implied, my lord, but if we cross-check in my companies, he was a free-lancing agent. He was more of...I don't know whether he was bringing in projects and was paid. I don't remember his schedule. He had his own company. Whatever he presented to you, our relationship was for convenience not for employment. I was a bit uncomfortable but I didn't push because it was a quick transition. I didn't have time to clear my past activities. I didn't have time to separate the two. GK: that he had access to you and other senior ministry of defence officials and he could make things happen. Can you comment on that? Saleh: he is a sharp-shooter...(laughter) but it does not bear on his capacity to influence things. GK: you said you were skeptical but he seems to have high capacity. Saleh: that was on their part. They went as CSC and not ministry of defence. GK: But he came and brought you a whole album and not for the ministry of defence Saleh: he wanted to impress me with the job he was doing. It is marketing. GK: what would have been the outcome of the impression on you? Saleh: the sale of the helicopters. GK: would you then support the transaction? Saleh: that is what he may have expected. I did everything on the contrary. Everything was left to the ministry of defence to verify. All the contractual obligations were not in his means and I did not interfere. GK: on the presentation of the offer, what did you tell the Commander-in-Chief? Saleh: I informed him, as per the inquiry, there was this possibility. These people would accept promissory notes to mature in a year but that we would get the helicopters this year. GK: did you tell him who the people were. Emma Katto? Chris Smith? Max Waterman? Saleh: No. GK: what was your understanding of their state? Saleh: my lord, I thought they would abide by the contract which means refurbishing them (choppers), which was later turned to overhaul. GK: what is the difference between refurbishment and overhaul? Saleh: I also don't understand the difference but from the first contract of February it was refurbishment but the one of October it was overhaul. The contract seemed to have provided for delivery of fully functional helicopters. GK: was the overhaul an afterthought? Saleh: yes, it appears the first contract was refurbishment while the amendment was for overhaul. GK: did you follow up the 25th July 1996 letter to the Army Commander (Maj Gen Mugisha Muntu)? Saleh: I would talk to him and he would say they are handling it. GK: did he show you he has an interest in the matter? Saleh: he was. GK: the testimony we have here is that the Army Commander sat on the letter. Saleh: I don't know how to answer that. But sit on the letter, what for? I don't have any interpretation for that? GK: you said you advised Maj. Lutaya not to accept the aircraft. Were you aware that acceptance was done before shipment? Saleh: I had just moved to the ministry of defence and I didn't know the implication of the acceptance...News and information spread very fast in the ministry of defence and the PS's office appointed a certain undersecretary called Muhinda who was given the responsibility of handling that case. Asked about whether he would take any responsibility for the loss that government has incurred in this saga, Saleh said: "I take responsibility for having introduced such a company to government. And I will do anything in my means to help this commission. I can dig up further information for you. I wish to thank you for giving me this chance to clear my name or implicate it." (Hearing continues) GK: why didn't you call Ruyondo or Katto to account to you? Saleh: I was terribly annoyed with them. I was not in need of talking to them. They had not fulfilled the contract. It became a public matter and there was no need of talking to them. Ssebutinde: in what way did it become public? Saleh: the ministry of defence instituted an inquiry Ssebutinde: the first people you should have confronted were the people who supplied these defective machines, to find out their story why? Saleh: it was very difficult for me at that time because talking to them would have been like covering them up. Ssebutinde: but you introduced them to government Saleh: it was an oversight. Ssebutinde: I saw you talking to Ruyondo this morning. I hope it was not coaching before you came here. Saleh: it was under the Secretary for Defence. He was in charge of contracts Ssebutinde: we have noticed a tendency to downplay the shoddiness of the suppliers. There is a tendency to gloss over the identity of CSC. I am afraid it will not do. Who was government dealing with? What did you do? Saleh: my lord, I think I said that I told engineer Lutaya not to accept the aircraft if he thought they were defective and the airforce to launch an inquiry. The SD (Secretary of Defence) had dispatched Mr Muhinda, the undersecretary and I thought that was enough. Ssebutinde: have you ever spoken to Emma Katto? Saleh: he has deliberately avoided me Ssebutinde: and Kwame Ruyondo? Saleh: his story is long. I can't recount it now. Ssebutinde: we are not in a hurry Saleh: what has transpired is that there was financial mismanagement of the whole project. Even if you asked, I have never understood what went wrong. After that it was too much for me to get involved in the discussions. They said Salim Saleh ate money. I left it to investigations. Ssebutinde: when I saw you with Ruyondo this morning, I wondered what you were discussing. What is his explanation? Why did CSC breach the contract? Saleh: I didn't think I have enough details on that? Ssebutinde: give us the few details you have Saleh: I don't have any details? Ssebutinde: I am on the brink of exonerating you but it depends on what I hear. Saleh: my lord, I am exonerable. Ssebutinde: but I feel you are withholding information from us. what did Ruyondo tell you? Saleh: when we talk, he gives me the impression that he was in the dark about Emma Katto's financial transactions. Ssebutinde: the sellers or suppliers breached the terms of the contract. Why did they breach the terms? Saleh: my lord, Katto is the person to answer that question but if I am mandated, I can conduct investigations and bring you the information. But Katto would be the best person to answer. Ssebutinde: I would imagine that Katto being the middleman to the seller..the two of you should have salvaged your names. This thing has now become a national scandal. I don't buy you saying you were too annoyed to speak to Katto and Ruyondo. I don't believe it. You have had occasions in the last five years. Saleh: in God's name, I have not. I hear he has employed a lawyer who is defending his deliveries. Ssebutinde: I want to return to Ruyondo's relationship with you (she reads part of Ruyondo's testimony). Is it true that he is employed in your Calebs International and Efforte Corporation? Saleh: from 1995, Calebs was part of Efforte Corporation and as I have already said, he is not the type you can employ for a salary. He was on part-time. Ssebutinde: was he or was he not? Saleh: he was. this was between 1995 and 1998. Ssebutinde: then he was involved in the helicopter deal with Katto. Saleh: yes. Ssebutinde: Ruyondo says Katto approached him to link him to you and this is how this deal was introduced to you. Saleh: kwame told me that Katto wanted to see me. In my first meeting with Katto, Kwame was not there. Ssebutinde: regarding what? Saleh: army issues. Ssebutinde: what kind of issues? Saleh: general supplies but he wanted to introduce classified materials. Ssebutinde: according to Kwame, Katto had his choppers under his arm and was looking for you. Whose story should be believed? Saleh: mine. Ssebutinde: don't cover up for Katto. Saleh: I can't. he was looking for me and I found him in his place. Ssebutinde: you were looking for each other. How does Kwame come in? Saleh: he would have his links with Katto. Ssebutinde: he was a sharp-shooter but we want to understand the relationship. Saleh: I have admitted two things. There was the contract with Kwame and there was the US$200,000 as commission promised to me. Ssebutinde: you mean the US$800,000 (laughter), what were the terms? Saleh: I did not have an arrangement with him. But it was after the deliveries and payments made. Ssebutinde: do you feel disappointed that the payments fell through? Saleh: that is very tricky, my lord. Ssebutinde: if I was promised US$800,000 and the deal fell through, I would be very disappointed. Saleh: I was not disappointed but I was disappointed in the sense of the problem it has caused me. Ssebutinde: what problems? Saleh: the perception that I ate money from the helicopter deal. It has been very damaging to me. Ssebutinde: what was the President's reaction? Saleh: he was very upset. I also informed the Army Commander, the CLE at that time and the SD. Ssebutinde: so it was an open secret? Saleh: yes. Ssebutinde: what prompted you? Saleh: because of the conflict of interest it was bound to reflect. Ssebutinde: they still went ahead and dealt with CSC. You disclosed the bribe or attempted bribe after they had finished the contract? Saleh: yes. Ssebutinde: then what was the point of telling them? Saleh: so that they could redeploy the money Ssebutinde: what money? Saleh: the commission. I would have surrendered it to the army. Ssebutinde: why would you do that? Saleh: to clear my conscience. (ssebutinde said she did not understand why Saleh would accept to receive the bribe and then put it back into government use. But he said the delivery of the aircraft was a bigger priority than the receipt of the commission. He said that Katto had promised to give him the commission so that he could urge the ministry of defence not follow the right procedures, accept rotten equipment and expedite the deal". He said he had drawn up a plan to spend the US$800,000 to "develop civil-military cooperation, boost economic activities in the displaced camps, disburse agricultural/trade loans, bush-clearing etc". ssebutinde said that Saleh's plan reminded her of the legendary Robinhood who would rob the rich and give to the poor. He promised to avail his plan to the Commission. He also said there appeared to be many people in the chopper deal. He said that notwithstanding a cheaper offer for combat helicopters revealed by President Museveni during a High Command meeting in Kilembe, the defence ministry went ahead and dealt with CSC. He said there was a fear for litigation over the contract which had already been signed. He said he also chose to deal with CSC because he believed that it is good to promote Ugandans in the arms trade. He however added that he had never heard of a Ugandan arms dealer. He said the army needed MIG 21 to intercept Sudanese Antonovs which were bombing northern Uganda and the choppers were "for ground effect against the rebels". He said some of the safeguards the defence ministry should have taken include verification of the authenticity of the suppliers record, physical inspection, documents showing evidence that he is capable of supplying. Asked about whether he would take any responsibility for the loss that government has incurred in this saga, he said: "I take responsibility for having introduced such a company to government. And I will do anything in my means to help this commission. I can dig up further information for you. I wish to thank you for giving me this chance to clear my name or implicate it".) Hearing continues Ends