Kazini Says UPDF Trained Rebels

The Commission led by Justice David Porter reconvenes as before. The other Commissioners are Justice Joseph Berko and John Rwambuya, a retired UN official. The Commission's lead Counsel is Allan Shonubi. Anne Mugisa and Alfred Wasike recorded the proceedings. Shonubi: My lords, our second witness (Kavuma) has retuned to make some clarifications. Porter: I must remind you that you are still on oath. Kavuma: Yes my lords. Shonubi: Last time you were talking about the UN begging Uganda to stay in the Congo. Kavuma: Shortly after the report of the UN experts, as soon as we had announced that we wanted to totally pull out of the Lusaka agreement and our troops out of the Congo, a number of appeals came in. The Secretary General wrote to His Excellency begging Uganda to stay. I don't have a copy of the letter to President Yoweri Museveni. Porter: You don't have the letter? Kavuma: I request that when you interact with the President, you can get it from him. Porter: But if you can get it for us. Kavuma: I will endeavour. Porter: what date was it? Kavuma: Soon after we had announced that we shall pull out of the Lusaka accord including our troops from the DRC. Porter: Was it in 2000 or before? Kavuma: It was in 2001, shortly after the report of the UN experts. Shonubi: You also wanted to give us some information on the UPDF in the overthrow of Mobutu. Kavuma: Our support was moral in the overthrow of Mobutu. Our troops did not participate. We morally supported positive forces to stabilise Zaire. Shonubi: What were the number of battalions in the DRC then and now? Kavuma: I will abandon by conscience. Troops were moving in and out. At he height of our presence there, we had 10 battalions. Each battalion has 736 soldiers. Porter: Does it vary from battalion to battalion? Berko: Does it include officers and men? Kavuma: Yes. But the army commander can clarify on that. Shonubi: Is it international or UPDF? Kavuma: others are bigger or smaller. Shonubi: Now how many do we have? Porter: That is national security. Berko: you would rather leave it. Kavuma: On the President's message to the army on trading, the NRA had a code of conduct in the bush, a tradition to have clear instructions. Porter: so there were other guidelines? Kavuma: During the bush war days, there was the code of conduct which became part of the law. Berko: our concern was that the warning was after the press reports, you had said it was war propaganda, so we think the president could have heard something. Kavuma: we should be looking at core issues underlying the crisis in the DRC. We should put our weight behind the Lusaka Peace Accord. Porter: these problems need to be sorted out as soon as possible before the Lusaka agreement can proceed. But I want to say something (annoyed). We have High Court powers. These are senior people (referring to the Army Commander-Maj Gen Jeje Odongo and Chief of Staff Brig James Kazini because they had not showed up) who would not want us to issue warrants against them. We have only three months. We would not want to issue the warrants but we may have to do it. Shonubi: that will be communicated to them. Army Chief of Staff Brig. James Kazini takes oath and sits. He is flanked by Captain Kanyogonya, a lawyer. Kazini gives his particulars and says that he is currently deployed in Kasese, western Uganda. He says he is commanding operations against the ADF in the Rwenzori's. He also said he was deployed in the DRC in August 1999 as the in-charge of the UPDF and ended his services in May 2000. Shonubi: What were your duties in the DRC? Kazini: Commanding and Controlling all UPDF activities and reporting to the Army Commander, Maj. Gen. Jeje Odong.... Shonubi: Who made the decision to deploy the UPDF in the DRC? Kazini: The decision was made, I was told, between the two governments, the DRC and Uganda. Shonubi: Did you look at this agreement? Kazini: No, that wasn't my duty. I have never been in the political arena. Shonubi: which year did the UPDF go to Congo? Kazini: immediately after the ADF terrorists attacked Mpondwe sometime back ion 1996. This is the border point between the DRC and Uganda in Kasese....After that the bandits camped at a place called Buhira....Km North of Mpondwe in the DRC . We kept informing the UPDF Headquarters about the presence of the enemy and when political negotiations started, we were allowed to start fighting in the DRC. Shonubi: Why...? Kazini: Because the DRC did not have the capacity as a government to contain them (ADF). Shonubi: In 1998, more UPDF were deployed in the DRC... Kazini: Yes. We had to deploy at Buhira, Buswaga, Lhume and others all on the eastern border with the DRC. Porter: And very close to the border? Kazini: Yes. Shonubi: How many soldiers did you have in the DRC? Kazini: We had one batallion of 800 officers and men. Shonubi: Are you aware of the reason the UPDF went to Congo? Kazini: Yes. Shonubi: What are they? Kazini: To pursue..... the ADF. We had information that they were getting supplies from the Sudan. So we wanted to deny them that chance. Shonubi: Had you been to the DRC before? Kazini: Never. (stands up and shows the Commissioners the map of where the UPDF were). Shonubi: At the time you were deployed to the DRC, where were our troops? Kazini: That was the beginning of the deployment..... Shonubi: Which other points did the UPDF go to? Kazini: (Again points to the map and shows the places ). This is the border at Mpondwe and this is Imesse at the border with the Central African Republic. Shonubi: Did you go to a place called Gbadolite? Kazini: Yes. (He shows it on the map). Shonubi: Did you go to Mbandaka? Kazini: No. We did not go to Mbandaka. Shonubi: Those places are close to 2,000km from the border. What was the purpose of your going there? Kazini: You see, when we over powered the ADF and chased them from the mountains, many of them withdrew to Beni. We went and fought them, then they went to Bunya, then Isiro and then Buta...They retreated into the hinterland, from close to the border to the Congo. From Buta to Bumba, then Businga, we followed them, to Bondo north of Buta...There were many places but the most important ones were Buta, Imesse, Gbadolite, Yakoma near the Sudan... Shonubi: How far did your mandate go. To pursue the ADF everywhere they went? Kazini: In between, something happened to our ally, the DRC government then and we found ourselves dealing with rebel factions in Congo. I don't know if the legitimacy stopped with the Kinshasa government. The rebels were the ones in control of the area. Shonubi: Did your forces assist the rebels? Kazini: At times we did joint operations and our ally, the government of the DRC had turned against us. The government was helping the ADF and the West Nile Bank Front...In the course of the fighting, we came across documents showing that Kabila's government was actually aiding the ADF...The document was from rebel Commander called Kabanda to a Colonel called Ebamba, who was the Brigade Commander of FAC in Beni in Kabila's government. The document was saying that they (ADF) were still strong in the mountains and that they would inform Ebamba how to deliver supplies to them. Porter: Will we see this letter? Kazini: Yes. There is a letter (He and Kanyogonya look for the letter). It is dated February 15,1998. Porter: That was sixth months before you went to Congo? Kazini: Yes...It is addressed to Ebamba (reads the fax copy of the letter, which they found, then says somethings are not legible. He says the original copy can be got from the Military Intelligence). We got the document from Ebamba's briefcase. Ebamba had run away. But we captured the place. Shonubi: Who was responsible for the decision to go to the DRC in 1998? Kazini: Decisions are taken by the Army High Command. (He denies accusations by the UN report that some top UPDF officers were eager to deploy in the DRC in order to go and plunder wealth which included gold, diamonds, timber and others). Shonubi: Who were the members of the High Command? There are some who are historicals , others are current (He says he does not understand the question) Porter: I make comments on the witnesses. The one I'm considering right now is evasive and I hope I do not have to do that. (The judge then asks him if the people who had gone to DRC in 1996 were on the High Command by 1998). Kazini: No. Shonubi: The UN report says that some UPDF officers had hidden agendas which were economic and financial..... Kazini: It is not correct. There has never been such motives and never shall be, I think. Shonubi: Were more UPDF soldiers sent to the DRC? Kazini: Yes, with the intensity of the situation, more forces came in..... Shonubi: How many soldiers did you have there? Kazini: By the time I went there, there were three battalions and by the time I left, there were 12 battalions. Shonubi: What steps did you take to ensure discipline? Kazini: We took several measures. First was the operational code of conduct. In Makindye Military barracks, so many of our troops are in detention because of misconduct in the DRC. Porter: What did they do? Kazini: Murder, rape, theft, all sorts of categories. Porter: What did they steal? Kazini: At times personal property, money, something like that. Our intelligence office has files....we got warnings to reprimand. Even the Commander-in-Chief at one time reprimanded us because he had heard reports of the urges and needs of some people...so we implemented the code. Shonubi: (Shows Kazini a radio message by President Museveni. Kazini: yes, it was sent to me by the President. Shonubi: This is dated December 1998. You were deployed in the DRC in 1999. Kazini: I was still in western region. I hadn't crossed the border yet. Shonubi: You can see the major concern was of soldiers and officers getting involved in business in the DRC, gold timber and others. Kazini: Yes. I had got that kind of rumours that a few individuals had that intention and we investigated. I even got a message from the DMI asking us to investigate some individuals who were said to be looting and trading. Shonubi: Did you..? Kazini: Yes. Some were arrested and detained. Then they stopped. They were isolated cases here and there and not on an organised scale. Shonubi: The case of one Lt. Col. Nyakaitana? Kazini: Yes. The case was about theft of a military lorry engine which they sold in Kisangani. It was a FAC military lorry engine. Shonubi: Were they court martialled? Kizini:No. The engine was recovered and on returning here, they were pardoned. Shonubi: Were any of the UPDF soldiers trading in gold, diamond and timber? Kazini: Only one Lt. Okumu and action was taken on him. He did not mine the gold himself but assisted the locals to mine. They used explosives and some people died and so we got him. Shonubi: What was the name of the mine? Kazini: I don't know, but it is in the report of the Intelligence officer....Okumu was arrested and brought to the cells in Makindye...I don't know what followed. Shonubi: The UPDF was not involved in the overthrow of Mobutu? Kazini: Correct . Shonubi: What was the UPDF's role as far as the rebels in the DRC? Kazini: Nothing, we have only been training them. (He denied active role in the fighting. He said at first they fought, but when the ADF were no longer with FAC, the UPDF withdrew and just observed. He said the UPDF remained behind in the Congo to check on the ADF remnants in the Congo forests. He also denied involvement in the Lendu-MaiMai conflict and said the UPDF only kept peace there, and that he was told, on request by the International Community. He denied appointing an administrator for Bunya, an area with a population of between four to six million people. He said there was a vacuum in Bunya, no administration or Police and this woman came up saying she was to put the place in order. She said that he only wrote a letter introducing her to the UPDF there. Kazini also said the clashes between Rwandan and Ugandan troops in Kisangani came about when Rmile Illunga ousted RCD/Goma head Wamba Dia Wamba. Wamba came to us in Kisangani. So in protecting him, it caused a clash. It was the origin of the three clashes. Ends