Uganda is a beautiful country, take care of it

Ahmed Abdel Aziz Mostafa has been Egyptian ambassador in Uganda for the past three years. Mostafa, an electrical engineer, began his career in Foreign Service in 1985 in the African department. He has also served in Asia and Europe. The father of two is expected to return to Cairo in the coming weeks for his final posting in foreign service before retirement. Pascal Kwesiga interviewed him about the touchy issue of River Nile water, bilateral relations, Egyptian investment in Uganda and his impression.  

QUESTION: Egypt seems to be repositioning herself in Africa. What explains her newfound love with the rest of Africa?

ANSWER: Egypt formulated its foreign policy after the 1952 revolution. Well, we had a foreign policy even before 1952 but it was not properly formulated. Egypt then felt that it should help the rest of the African continent to gain independence. The concept was that Egypt, which got its independence earlier will help the rest of Africa to get independence. We supported the independence movements in the whole of Africa.

We offered an urban area where meetings of African independence movements were held. The anti-colonial movement leaders used to meet and update each other on the progress of the struggles for independence in Egypt. This went on until the whole continent gained independence apart from South Africa which suffered under the apartheid rule.

Boutros Boutros-Ghali, an Egyptian, was the UN secretary general (between 1992 and 1996). He used his position and Egypt to support efforts to secure the release of Nelson Mandela (1990). Since then, there have been stories and studies suggesting that the African continent is rising. It is now the richest continent in terms of resources and population with a lot of potential. New forums between Africa and other continents have since been created. All these forums indicate there is an international interest in Africa's resources. We believe these resources should be used properly to benefit Africans. Unfortunately, many countries sell their resources in raw form and they import expensively products made from Africa's resources from the west after they has been processed. It is important that our resources are processed here and exported to the international markets. On the other hand, there were also voices suggesting that Egypt's role in Africa reduced and that what we did in 1950s is no more. That is not true.

The issue is the period between 1950s and 1960s was characterised by independence struggles and Egypt played an active role. Since then, many powerful countries have come to Africa. We are not a very rich country to compete with these powers, but we try our best to help. The peak of the crisis in Egypt was in 2013 when President Mohamed Morshi was deposed. The AU rushed to suspend Egypt's membership. It was a big irony because Egypt is one of the founders of the AU. We did not believe our African brothers would behave in such a way. The political leadership in Egypt gave directives that we should be reactive to our foreign policy in Africa so as to try to overcome some of our past mistakes. There were issues of negligence and sometimes we did not respond to our African brothers in time. We are reactivating our foreign policy and this explains the new trend regarding Egypt's intentions towards the rest of Africa.

Qn. What are your impressions about Uganda?

Ans. Uganda is a very lovely country. It is full of people with potential. I remember President Yoweri Museveni saying one time that there are some countries in Africa that had good luck while others had a bad luck. Unfortunately, Uganda had a bad luck. I trust that Uganda will be the focus of interest in the near future. Her role is pivotal in East Africa and on the African continent. Uganda has one of the loveliest people. The scenery is fascinating and the country has a lot of potential. And that is why we are seriously encouraging our companies to come and do business in Uganda.

Qn. Egypt is a desert. But Uganda does not compare with her in terms of development. What lessons does Uganda have to learn from Egypt?

Ans. It is not only Uganda, but many African countries. Egypt is about 1,000 square kilometers in size and Egyptians live on only 15% of this area. The 85% of the country is a desert with a small number of people. We have just been trying to use our resources properly. But the only resource, which has been properly used since Pharaoh's time is River Nile. Even visitors knew that the Nile is an important issue for the Egyptians. The banks of the Nile and Delta were cultivated. Egypt was for a long time an agricultural country. After the 1952 revolution, President Nasser Hussein, decided to introduce industrialisation and many factories were established. The basis of our success at that stage is that we came together for a common cause - colonialism. We think Africans need to come together again for a common cause to build our continent collectively. This will be a big achievement for us. Egypt then believed in the African cause and it discussed the issue at the international stages with the international community. That is when our power started to grow and the international community started to appreciate Egypt's role in Africa. You can see Egypt's power does not lie in her internal capacities and proper use of resources alone, but also in defending the cases of Africa and Arab world and keeping an active diplomacy there.

Qn. As you prepare to exit Uganda, are there striking things about this country that will remain in your memory for long?

Ans. I have had an interesting experience in Uganda. The best time I have had in foreign service has been during my work in Uganda. What shocked me most are the natural sceneries and beauty of this country. And this is reflected in the beauty of its people. The people are decent, nice, co-operative and respectful. One of the important natural features I have seen in Uganda is Murchison Falls. The sound of water as it hits the rocks is really wonderful.

Qn. How can Uganda take advantage of her beauty?

Ans. You have to promote tourism. You need to create awareness and put in place proper infrastructure. The number of tourists will increase and tourism will become a huge source of income for Uganda.  We have 3,300 hotels in Cairo of different categories. We have invited international companies into the country and built about eight new airports. Tourists can fly direct to several parts of the country without going through Cairo because there is an airline and infrastructure. Egypt received 15 million tourists in 2010 and everything has been going on well until the crisis that started in 2011. Our target was to have 18 million tourists the following year because we had the infrastructure to accommodate them.

Qn. How much did Egypt earn from the 15 million tourists?

Ans. Tourism was the top revenue source for Egypt in 2010. We earned over $20b (sh67 trillion) from tourism

Qn. What is the picture like now?

Ans. Oh, it is maybe half a million tourists coming into Egypt today. And now the problem is terrorism. Each time a terrorist knows you are recovering, they hit you and people cannot come. You know what is happening to France and many countries are advising their nationals not to go there.

Qn. What is the status of bilateral relations between Uganda and Egypt?

Ans. Our relationship with Uganda is very important and we value it. This is especially when President Yoweri Museveni condemned the decision by AU to suspend Egypt. In response, Egypt decided that Uganda will continue to benefit from our technical assistance programme. That is why Uganda has been sending trainees to Egypt. There are a lot of consultations at the political level and the two presidents have met about three times so far. You know our president Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has been in power for only two years. Our president will be visiting Uganda soon. You will hear us setting up a joint commission to revive all channels of our bilateral relations. Trade between Egypt and Uganda is growing. Egypt earned $61m (sh205b) and $75m (sh252b) in imports to Uganda in 2014 and 2015, respectively. The Egyptian companies and investment in Uganda is expanding. We are going to open up a commercial office in our embassy here very soon. We have encouraged cultural troupes to perform during national festivals in Egypt. Ndrere Troupe performed in Egypt in 2014 and 2016. Ugandans received free tickets from us. Egypt defeated Uganda in football last year and now both countries are in the same group for qualification for the World Cup. Uganda is number one beneficiary of our technical assistance programme. We are offering more than 200 training courses to Ugandans each year. 

Qn. Are there Ugandan products sold in Egyptian supermarkets?

Ans. No. This should be a Ugandan initiative.

Qn. Is it possible for someone in Egypt to recognise the coffee and tea you import from Uganda?

Ans. Egyptians are heavy drinkers of tea, but I drink a lot of coffee. Tea is very important for Egyptians. You cannot find Ugandan tea in Egyptian supermarkets because you auction your tea to neighbouring countries. These countries remove the label indicating the tea is made in Uganda and they put on their labels. This is not good. But you know your interests better. Why shouldn't you sell your own coffee and tea instead of giving it to another country to sell it for you? Maybe, this is your interest.     

Qn. Ugandan girls are being trafficked into Egypt to serve as domestic servants. Some of them have been abused by their supposed employers. What is your take?

Ans. These are individuals and isolated cases because Uganda and Egypt do not co-operate in the field of manpower. You are doing that with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries. The number of girls who leave Uganda for Egypt each year does not exceed five. One may have encountered a bad experience, but that does not make it a phenomenon. We regret that. Do not forget there are Uganda officials including those in foreign service who take with them Ugandan girls to Egypt. We have officials in the foreign ministry and diplomatic community who ask to be allowed to go to Egypt with girls. It is very tough and difficult for us to stop them.

Qn. Is it not better to work out a formal arrangement through which Ugandans girls can be hired as maids?

Ans. This is your issue. It is not ours. It should be a Ugandan initiative to give it a legal basis and spell out the responsibilities of both countries. But these are still individual cases. The number of girls who have so far left for work in Egypt this year does not exceed four. Some of them are taken to Egypt as wives when they are actually not. Upon reaching there, they get them hired as housemaids by other people. In this case, we can do two things - prosecute these men or close our eyes on them. I think you need to create more awareness for the girls and give them contacts of embassy officials they can get in touch with in case of any problem. I will be honest with you. There are gangs in Uganda earning from human trafficking. They do a lot of illegal things to get the girls out of the country. It is better to legalise the process so that we are all safe. When you deny them, you give chance these gangs to work. We can work with Uganda to legalise the process.

Qn. There is longstanding controversy over the River Nile waters. How do you think this question should be resolved?

Ans. It should be resolved collectively in the spirit of trust and confidence. If we do that, all issues regarding the Nile will be properly handled. But if you start taking unilateral decisions and doubting everything I say as a member of NBI (Nile Basin Initiative), it does not work. It only creates an environment of tension where one considers themselves as opponents of the other.

Qn. What is the origin of this controversy?

Ans. Egypt has been using the Nile for 7,000 years. The Egyptian civilisation is considered to be the oldest in the whole world because of the Nile. It is not our choice. The Egyptians realised the importance of the Nile in their lives and they started praying, worshiping and looking after it as well as trying to make it happy. Gradually, with human evolution, it became an issue of culture. We have books, movies and celebrations for the Nile. It is part of our culture. If you tell someone to draw a map of Egypt, they will begin with the Nile and then borders. That is how important the Nile is in our lives. With the increase in the number of people in countries that share the Nile with us, the pressure on the Nile started increasing and the conflict appeared. This one says the Nile passes by me and this is mine. This is water from God. We did not create it and we should all share it. We created an institution (NBI) so that we can discuss and work out a way of us all benefiting from the Nile.

Unfortunately, some parties started moving individually and saying we are going to do this and you have to accept it. If you really considered your neighbours on the other floors as brothers, you should let know or consult them because you know what you are doing on the first floor will affect your brother on the 10th floor. Such unilateral acts breach the collectivity of the whole institution. We have a country like Uganda that shares Lake Victoria with Kenya and Tanzania. Kenya cannot pump all the water it needs from the lake through its borders. That is why we put in place an institution to operate on a legal framework and principles governed by international law. Unfortunately, our request was denied. Our question is what is going to happen if a conflict arises between two countries regarding the utilisation of water? The agreement is silent about it.

Qn. Who denied your request?

Ans. Some of the member countries. They said international law has no impact on our legal agreements. We decided to freeze our activities regarding NBI.

Qn. Which activities did you freeze?

Ans. We stopped being a positive member. We just come, sit and listen.

Qn. For how long will this (freezing of activities) continue?

Ans. Until the issue is resolved.

Qn. When did you freeze your participation in NBI activities?
Ans. I think 2002.

Qn. What will happen if all countries sign the agreement stripping Egypt of the veto powers over the Nile? Won't that be a binding agreement for all the Nile Basin countries including Egypt?

Ans. Then, there will be a new dimension of the conflict. I do not know exactly what will happen because that question is based on assumption. But for the time being, you cannot be on the 10th floor and ask me who is on the first floor to accept what you are doing without consultations.

Qn. What issues have you failed to agree on in the new agreement?

Ans. You have to consider my worries.

Qn. Which are your worries?

Ans. If the quality of water reduces, we will have more scarcity of the resource. We do not have any other sources of water expect the Nile. We are a desert country. We do not have rains. We are recycling water. These are our worries.

Qn. The countries in the Nile Basin have shared the water for years. What has been done on the Nile that makes you think the water level will reduce?

Ans. If you go ahead and build this Grand Renaissance Dam (Ethiopia is building the dam on the river despite Egypt's reservations), which is going to block a huge quantity of water. The quantity of water coming through will reduce. We are already below water poverty line ( According to UNDP, a country is said to be below the water poverty line when per capita water availability is less than 1,000m3 per year). Other countries are undertaking projects to increase the scarcity of water in Egypt. What do you think we are going to do? We need to sit down and talk. You tell us how much electricity you want to generate and we give prepositions to help you to get that amount of electricity without affecting us. This creates a win-win situation. But why do you insist that you have to win and I lose? Are we at war?

Qn. Where do we go from here?

Ans. I have previously stressed two important factors. We need confidence building and stop doubting each other. We need studies to be done to know who is going to be affected. I am saying I will be affected by your actions and you are saying I will not be affected. Who is going to decide this? The agreement does not say who will decide. We decided we will consult international technical people to do the studies and tell us who will be affected by certain actions. We all want to be happy.

Qn. But Ethiopia is going ahead with the construction of the Grand Renaissance Dam without the technical advice from the people you have just mentioned. What does that mean?  

Ans. It means they will have to be more careful about how the dam operates so that it does not affect Egypt. We have extremely expressed our willingness to co-operate contrary to the stories of nonco-operation on our part.

Qn. In the event that nothing is done to address some of your concerns, it is likely that Egypt may consider some drastic actions like going to war?

Ans. No. That is out of the question. It was previously mentioned but it is not true. That is a black spot in our history and we do not consider it. Egypt has never gone to war with anyone because of water.  

Qn. Uganda is the Source of the Rive Nile. Which projects is Egypt helping Uganda to undertake to maintain the water levels?

Ans. Egypt contributed to the building of Owen Falls Dam in 1949 with an equivalent of $250m (sh843b) today. We are helping our Uganda brothers to get rid of the water hyacinth which blocks the exits of Lake Victoria. When we do this, we all win because water flows to Egypt. Because you are wise people you are approved it. We are building boreholes and valley tanks.

Qn. In 2013, AU's New Partnership for Africa's Development (NEPAD) and Egypt launched the construction of a navigation line between Lake Victoria and Mediterranean Sea. What is the update since the prefeasibility study was done?

Ans. We are collecting data from all countries that will benefit from this path to pave way for a detailed feasibility study. There are areas that need to be properly modified for navigation. We will call on everybody to do their work after collecting data. 

Qn. Do you have any message to leave for Ugandans?

Ans. You have a beautiful country. Take care of it. Keep your country safe so you can benefit from it later. Egyptians love Uganda so much and the first Egyptian film in Africa was filmed in Uganda in the 1970s. We consider you as friends and brothers. We will always be available to help you as much as we can.